3504 replies to this topic

[ora]

Moram se mal vtaknit in sicer, moje mnenje je, da tudi kreme z visokimi faktorji škodijo. Sploh če gre za faktor 40 in se krema brez problema lepo vpije in maže in ne pušča sledi, saj gre v tem primeru baje za tako majhne kemične delce, da gredo pregloboko v kožo in tam lahko tudi delajo škodo... Točnega principa ne vem, mi je pa en kolega, ki nekaj v smeri kemije študira, enkat lepo razložil za kaj se gre. Sem pa zadnjič, ko sm se učila za izpit iz derme ugotovila še za kaj naj bi šlo pri meni (ker ne smem uporabljat krem z olji).

[Kinky]

[ora]

Kva spet

[Kinky]

Mah en kup nekih informacij, ne veš kje bi začel brat, pa kaj bi verjel. Druagče jaz tebi vse verjamem, ker si od stroke.

[Marmelada]

Mogoče bom probala tudi jaz to z Diacnealom. Ampak do zdaj, ko sem imela kake kreme s kislinami, se mi je pojavilo še večje luskanje kože in sem zato vsakič odnehala. Mogoče bi morala res samo vsake 3 dni zvečer.
Kolk pa stane glicerin v lekarni? Poročajte, ko boste zmešale ta serum. Kakšno količine boste dale? Jaz se malo bojim, da bi prišlo do kakšnih neželenih reakcij na koži.

Glede krem v visokim ZF...jaz si bom v kratkem nabavila od Avene emulzijo, zdaj sem še na testerju, ko mi ga zmanjka pa grem kupit. Sem pa v dilemi, ali naj kupim ZF 50 ali 30. Po eni strani se mi zdi 50 mogoče malo pretirano, ne vem. Brala sem članek od nekega dermatologa in je rekel, da je že faktor 15 dovolj, ampak da raje svetujejo nekoliko višje faktorje zato, ker se ponavadi ne namažemo dovolj na debelo.

[ora]

Ja sej to je pa tud res ja, da preveč šparamo, ampak jst se na morju skos packam z moje ultra strupeno Coppertone ZF 15 in me ni še opeklo, pa senca al brez sence. Jaz talent ponavadi letim na plačo ob 11h . Sm ful neprevidna kar se tega tiče ampak sej ko prideš enkrat do morja ti itak pamet odpove .

[Marmelada]

Jaz pa vedno kupujem sončne kreme s SPF 30, manj nikoli. Glede 50ke pa se še odločam.

Moram pa nabavit tudi nekaj bolj lahkega brez SPF zdaj za poletje, za takrat, ko ne grem ven. Sem si ravno kupila Cosmerbo, ampak mi je premastna. Bi jo imela samo za ponoči. Se odločam med Nuxe fluidom za matiranje (ki pa je žal kar drag-30 ml stane približno 23€), Aubrej Organics Vegecol - baje je lahka, nisem pa še probala, ker v trgovini niso imeli testerja ali pa Balea Aqua serum. Glede na trenutno finančno stanje pride v poštev samo Balea.

[_Planet_]

Moram se mal vtaknit in sicer, moje mnenje je, da tudi kreme z visokimi faktorji škodijo. Sploh če gre za faktor 40 in se krema brez problema lepo vpije in maže in ne pušča sledi, saj gre v tem primeru baje za tako majhne kemične delce, da gredo pregloboko v kožo in tam lahko tudi delajo škodo... Točnega principa ne vem, mi je pa en kolega, ki nekaj v smeri kemije študira, enkat lepo razložil za kaj se gre.

Ora, bo drzalo, sem v eni temi pred casom pisala o TiO2 kot nanodelcu. Edit: klik.

Sem pa zadnjič, ko sm se učila za izpit iz derme ugotovila še za kaj naj bi šlo pri meni (ker ne smem uporabljat krem z olji).

Za kaj gre? Sej sva se ze enkrat pogovarjali o tem, pa sem ze malo pozabila.

[krneki]

Glede Avene, no ja nisem verjela PJ, sam zdaj ji.

Na arsu sem ugotovila da je ful punc ko se jih je koža čist zapackala z Avene, ja in jaz included.

To sem ugotovila, ko je zdaj apr dni nisem dala gor in mam na čelu približno 1000× manj zamašenih por.


Diacneal: Podgana, sem brala že prej nekaj pa mi ni čist jasna ta scena. Kako pa je recimo s takimi, ki gub še nimamo - a naj bi jih uporaba tega tudi preprečevala?

[Kinky]

Da, preventivno tudi deluje. Pa preberite si te članke, da ne bo punca vsaki posebej pisala.


KLIK



Question: Why should I use retinoids? Am I too young to use retinoids? Should a person in their 20s use retinoids? Will using a retinoid now help prevent aging, or are they only for 'mature' skin?

Answers: Many people will tell you that retinoids are only for treating aged skin or acne , and that you don't need them if you're young and have clear skin .

These people are dead wrong, and I don't mean to be condescending, but don't know the entire story of what retinoids are about. Not even the half of it.

Retinoids modulate gene expression in the deepest layer of the skin to change the way skin cells develop so that their development is "optimum".

It has been estimated that retinoids have as many as 63 functions in the skin, and we are finding new ones all the time (by 'we' I mean the scientific community...my research doesn't concern retinoids, but I read up on them when I can).

Among just a *few* of the things they do: even out the complexion by interfering with excess melanin production, increase collagen production and deposition, protect collagen from degradation by down-regulating the enzymes that 'chew it up', normalize keratin production by keratinocytes so that excess keratin doesn't clog the pores (giving p acnes a nice place to grow), they are anti-inflammatory in most cases, they may be involved in DNA repair (that's right...keeps your skin young by keeping your DNA young...we may even find that they have tumor-supressor activity because of this), comedolytic (clears clogged pores you already have), they also down-regulate certain enzymes that are responsible for mediating UV-damage so that using a retinoid in the night may protect you (above and beyond what sunscreen can do) from UV damage the next day, they exfoliate the skin by increasing the rate at which new cells surface, they treat rosacea (at least retinaldehyde and differin do), etc etc etc.

No age is too young to begin using retinoids =). The medical community counsels that teens and 20s is a good age. In some instances, doctors even recommend treatment in very early life for certain ethnicities that are at high risk for UV damage accumulation at early ages (such as pale skinned red heads, etc). You can do a board search for posts by me or beethovengirl to find the exact info quoted if you'd like to know more about that =).

However, it is a commitment because you have to: 1) figure out which one is right for you and figure out what frequency works for you. This can be a tough process of trial and error because retinoids can be highly irritating when not used judiciously 2) use them continuously. The benfits go away when the drug goes away 3) use sunscreen regliously to prevent sun damage. Some retinoids thin the outermost layer of skin (stratum corneum) but they thicken and strengthen the layer underneath (epidermis). However, the stratum corneum is the first layer of protection against the sun, so thinning of this layer is going to make you more sun-sensitive. See the pics in my profile for a good example of what retinoids do to the various layers of the skin. HTH!

The moral of the story is: retinoids (when used cautiously and correctly) can have an amazing impact on your skin that is scientifically proven in clinical trials. They are also FDA approved to treat wrinkles and acne. The FDA would not approve them if they weren't shown to work time and again =). Also, retinoids are not just for wrinkles or acne, they are for keeping your skin at optimum function and *preventing* aging before it ever starts. I don't know about you, but I would rather prevent than treat any condition, including aging =)

Notice particularly the age recommendations at the bottom of this post:

Retinoids not only repair aging , but *prevent* aging.

They protect the collegen in the skin from degradative enzymes (called matrixmetalloproteinases) and there is evidence they are involved in DNA repair, so keep the DNA young (this may even be useful in protecting against cancer , but studies are still being done, so no word on this yet).

Retinoids are not only for aging either. They encourage the developing cells in the lowest layer of the skin to surface faster, they cause exfoliation of the epidermis, they cause cells to develop more 'normally', they are comedolytic, they normalize keratin production which keeps the pores clear...

list goes on and on. Most derms will tell you that retinoids are one of the best things you can do for your skin (as long as you can make it work without irritation) and no age is too young to be 'on' them (the only caveat: you must use sunscreen!). Heck, most teens are given retinoids for acne, and must stay on it their whole lives. I've read dozens of papers on retinoids, and the moral of the retinoid story is that this class of drugs are not 'just' for repairing aging. Addressing age issues is only *one* of the many, many things that retinoids do in regulating the physiology of the skin. There have also been studies done now ranging out to 22+ plus months showing that there is no negative risk factors involved with using retinoids long term. Check my profile for a pic of a woman who has been using retin A for 22 months, and see the amazing things it did for her skin =) HTH! And please let me know if you have more questions about retinoids and how they work. I research them quite extensively (the medical literature I mean) =)

PS. Information on when to start using retinoids from the medical literature:

from J Invest Dermatol. 2005 Oct;125(4):xii-xiii.,
"the only defenses commonly believed to prevent photoaging are the use of sunscreens to reduce the amount of ultraviolet (UV) that reaches the skin, the use of retinoids to prevent production of collagenase and stimulate collagen production, and the use of antioxidants to reduce and neutralize free radicals."

from Dr. Kligman
http://www.postgradm..._97/kligman.htm
When to begin treatment depends on the extent of photoaging. Most sun damage to the skin occurs in childhood. Histologic studies in Celts with apparently normal skin type I (ie, skin burns easily and tans poorly) have found that a surprising amount of damage has already been done to the dermal matrix by age 10. Thus, in blond, blue-eyed, light-skinned, freckled, Scotch-Irish persons, tretinoin therapy may be started before puberty if there is a history of sunburns in childhood, even if signs of photo-aging are not clinically evident. Examination of the skin under Wood's light is a simple way to estimate the degree of photodamage, since subclinical freckles and lentigines appear as conspicuous dark patches.

For persons living in sunny areas, treatment begun in the 20s and 30s is advantageous, even in those with skin type IV (ie, dark skin that burns minimally and tans very easily), unless they have a history of minimal sun exposure in childhood.


As you can see, using retinoids in your 20s can be good for you and is recommended by some experts =)

[Podgana]

V kremah se res uporabljajo zelo majhni delci t.d. (manjši od 2μm). Ampak kolikor je meni znano, in vivo raziskave (na živem organizmu) kažejo, da ne penetrira v kožo. Zaenkrat je to najbolj varna zaščita. Še vedno se več prostih radikalov sprosti, ko poješ eno pico

Za poceni vitamin c serum ne vem. Pospešeno iščem.

Grem zdajle mešat domačega!

[_Planet_]

Muradov vlazilni tonik ---> klik po opisu sodec tudi vsebuje kombinacijo vitaminov C in E (v ekstraktu semen grozdja - Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Extract) ---> klik.

Me like, me buy. : D


Sicer pa face it - zivljenje ubija.

: D

[Princeska]

Murad ima prov tonik s C vitaminom:

http://www.murad.com...min-c-toner.jsp

Ga pa še nisem probala, tako da ne vem. Je bil pa že ocenjen:
http://www2.cudovita...h...c=10339&hl=

Sicer pa tiste, ki vas zanima serum s c vitaminom...


Ni pa poceni...

Podgana, kaj sicer ti študiraš?

[Baby]

Tole(klik) bi verjetno moglo bit poceni.

[_Planet_]

Princess, nehaj, da ne zaidem v dilemiziranje.

Podgana drugace kemijo stirktno ljubiteljsko, sem jo ze jaz sprasevala ---> klik (again isti link kot zgoraj).

[Princeska]

Lililalalililalala.

[_Planet_]

Hehe. : D

kako prijazno od tebe, vzamem! Aja, samo, ce te je volja posiljati po posti, ker nimam pojma, kdaj bom kaj v Lj (poravnam postnino in pakiranje, ni problem). Ce ne pa prepuscam kateri drugi.

[Princeska]

Da da, se zmeniva na ZS, ni mi panike poslat, drugač.

Sm pa mal počistila poste, da kdo ne vidi, hehe.

[_Planet_]

OK, pocistila tudi jaz. : )

Super, dobis na ZS naslov.

[ora]

No jaz dobim izpuščaje po koži, če sm na soncu in namazana s čimerkoli kar vsebuje olja in dišave, čeprav za dišave niti ni tko hudo, mogoče tud zato ker ful pazim, da vedno vse dobro očistim, preden me vidi sonce. Gre pa za take mehurčke, kot ko te kopriva opeče in to nenormalno srbi in pika.